26 November 2011 @ 09:10 pm
how long has Jack been in the Air Force?  
I sure hope people are still watching this comm!

Simple question: when, or at what age, did Jack join the Air Force? Any insight or clues?
 
 
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justhuman: jack[personal profile] justhuman on November 27th, 2011 03:08 am (UTC)
In Season 8, there were good looks at the wall in Jack's office. At some point in the past I saw blow-ups of those via this post at Gateworld.

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/1664-Exclusive-Jack-O-Neill-office-photo-gallery

Unfortunately, the photos themselves are gone from the posted link. From what I remember and what one of the commentator's indicated, on of the certificates was his diploma from the Air Force Academy. For what it's worth, I remember the other was a certificate for some kind of joint services special ops training.

The write up in this wiki sites episode references saying that Jack was born in 1952 and graduate in 1974

http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/Jack_O%27Neill:_Stargate_Movie

However, it does point out there have been a few canon contradictions in that arena. That being said, I believe that 1969 corroborates the 1952 date -- talking about Jack being in high school in 1969.

Unfor
Beth (the 'Mac' is silent): Smarmy[personal profile] lolmac on November 27th, 2011 03:45 am (UTC)
Thank you so much! I should have thought of the wiki -- that's exactly what I needed!
thothmes[personal profile] thothmes on November 27th, 2011 03:26 am (UTC)
From the bio of Jack O'Neill on the MGM Stargate website, for what it's worth:

Founding commanding officer of SG-1. Upon joining the Air Force at 18, O'Neill proved himself to be an exceptional and gifted airman and was later assigned to a Special Forces unit. He resigned from the military when his son, Charlie, died by accidentally shooting himself with O'Neill's service weapon. O'Neill was devastated by the loss, which eventually drove his wife to divorce him. He was later recalled to duty by his former commanding officer and sent through the Earth's first discovered stargate, in a mission that gave him a new desire to live. After several years of leading SG-1 through missions across the galaxy, helping to save Earth innumerable times, he was promoted to brigadier general and chief of Stargate Command. Most recently, he was appointed by President Hayes to serve as the head of the newly created federal department of Homeworld Security and promoted to the rank of major general.
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Ivorygates: JACK: flag[personal profile] ivorygates on December 1st, 2011 11:14 am (UTC)
Yep. Born in '52 [we have this from several props over the course of the series, including his ID Card and a couple of computer shots of his file], graduated the Academy in 1974 [there's a good photo of the diploma prop in Propworx first Stargate Auction Catalogue]. This makes his Vietnam Service Ribbon a tidge problematical, but...

Stargate SG-1: The Ultimate Visual Guide by Kathleen Ritter
http://www.amazon.com/Stargate-SG-1-Ultimate-Visual-Guide/dp/0756623618/ref=sr_1_26?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322737192&sr=1-26

has a lot of good stuff, including a closeup of all of Jack's service ribbons and an explanation of what they are.

Note especially that Jack, as a graduate of the Academy, is not only in a very elite institution, but to attend he must also have received a nomination from a Senator or member of the House of Representatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Academy

Beth (the 'Mac' is silent): request permission[personal profile] lolmac on December 2nd, 2011 04:26 am (UTC)
Thank you!

I do have a copy of Kate's book, in fact, but it didn't have the date when he joined. I've spent quite a long time going over the ribbon charts!

Would he be held to have officially joined the Air Force in 1974, on graduation, or in 1970, when he started at the Academy as a cadet?
Ivorygates: 1. STARGATE: JACK: hero(red)[personal profile] ivorygates on December 2nd, 2011 04:46 am (UTC)
He would be in the Air Force from his date-of-commission, which he would obtain upon graduation from the Academy. Not all cadets who attend the Academy go on to serve in the military [however, those who do not are liable for repayment of their tuition], and at the cadet's discretion, he or she can request a commission in another service: the classes of the 1970s and early 1980s frequently requested Army commission in protest against Air Force integration policies.

Incidentally, though it is not relevant to Jack's schooldays, with a birthdate of 1952, it is pretty much certain his father served in WW2 or Korea or both. We have no canon on Jack's family, other than that little essay Rick wrote, but I like to think of Jack's father as being Army Air Corps. His mother, of course, could also have been...

LOLMac[identity profile] lolmac.livejournal.com on December 2nd, 2011 08:21 pm (UTC)
*scribbles notes happily*

If you don't mind my asking, are your Mad Military Knowledge Skillz the result of direct experience, or intense research? I'd be really, really interested in someone who can field specific questions from me on an ongoing basis, so I can actually write the military details of Stargate without sounding like a moron.
Ivorygates: 1. STARGATE: DANIEL/SAM: the geek patrol[personal profile] ivorygates on December 2nd, 2011 09:27 pm (UTC)
*g* INTENSE research! But I am happy to share!

BTW, over on LJ there's a comm called "military beta" http://military-beta.livejournal.com/ for specifically [i.e. "real world"] military questions [where they have actually military on tap as mods, I believe]. But so many Stargate Military questions are just a little bit... unique...
LOLMac[identity profile] lolmac.livejournal.com on December 2nd, 2011 09:34 pm (UTC)
Unique indeed.

I read some of your DW entries and ended up subscribing out of a passionate adoration of your delicious snark. Besides, you're a friend of Sid's!

Any speculation as to why Jacob Carter has such a small collection of ribbons (on his first appearance in full-dress uniform), other than the desire of the producers to make his chest candy look so much sparser than Jack's and Hammond's?
Ivorygates[personal profile] ivorygates on December 2nd, 2011 09:52 pm (UTC)
Sid is love!

[Come for the snark, stay for the deeply-obsessive canon...]

Huh. I never thought about that. We really only see him in uniform in the Washington ep [my brain for episode titles is apparently out doing research...][It's "Secrets". *DUH*]

My first guess would be that Jacob was Support Track rather than Combat Track [you specialize in one or the other fairly early in your military career, and it's Conventional Wisdom that Combat Track gets the best promotions; for example, both Jack and Hammond are Combat Track officers]; but there isn't much canon on Jacob. I don't think anybody's ever done a takedown on his fruit salad, either.

But I get the impression from the fb in which Sam thinks about her mother's death [I think that's "Netu, Part 2, where Jack drinks something that reminds him of the Seventies"][okay, it's "The Devil You Know", because I can't live without checking], it's clear that Jake is Stateside at the time, which [in my mind] lends weight to him being on the Support Side. That, and the fact he's clearly in his native habitat at the Pentagon [which must have been such a joy for Sam while she was stationed there...]
LOLMac[identity profile] lolmac.livejournal.com on December 2nd, 2011 11:15 pm (UTC)
deeply obsessive canon FTW
There's a site with just such a 'takedown', which I've been poring over (over which I have been poring?) -- if we're being snarky, the site looks like it was built on 1998 code, but There Be Data Thar. It also has a page for Janet.

http://personal.geah.org/stargate/jacob.html

It includes this marvelous footnote: "This is based on the medals we saw General Carter wearing in the episode 'Secrets' (209). It doesn't appear to match the medals being worn in Sam Carter's 'dream' in 'The Devil You Know' (313). However, it would appear that the general is also wearing the wrong style uniform for the period in this episode."

Based on this, I'm entirely discounting the uniform in the flashback/evul vision, and not placing too much reliance on the vision itself.

I figured I could make a good case for Jacob having flown too many desks, but I'd be happier with more thoughts than just mine on the subject.
Ivorygates: 1. STARGATE: SAM: the girl's a jet jocke[personal profile] ivorygates on December 2nd, 2011 11:33 pm (UTC)
Re: deeply obsessive canon FTW
1. Combat pilot my ass.

2. If they can definitely nail when Sam's "dream" takes place, I will give them a cookie, since she's saddled with two different birth-months [August, and - I believe - May] and never assigned a birth year...

2a. Given how scrambled Jack's dream/vision was [and Daniel's!] we can forgive Sam for getting a number of the details wrong while she's blasted on wirro....

3. Totally a paper-pusher IN HIS SOUL.

Still, useful site yay! Thanks for pointing it out...